Want more power in my Cougar, don't know which route to take.

"RoadHead -- Armand" (armandks)
08/11/2014 at 18:46 • Filed to: None

My cougar is currently rocking a 302 pulled out of an eighties Mustang. It runs well enough, but I just want more low end torque. I think it would be fun to hunt down the parts to turn my block into a Boss 302, but then I'm worried about not having enough power. A lot of people tell me to go the 351 route, as they are plentiful and can be had for cheap. Again, I fear a lack of power. Since the cougar could fit it, I have considered throwing in a 427 or a 428, but they are pricey. A friend of mine who only tinkers with Chevy motors told me to just do an LS swap, and I got to say, the extra mileage from fuel injection sounds nice. I'm not a purist or brand loyal, the Cougar has already been extensively modified and it's about to go down the deep end customization-wise soon. I'm not picky about whether it's a GM block under the hood. Something I keep coming back to is taking a 351, and boring it out to 408, so I get more grunt. What do you guys think? What would you do?

DISCUSSION (41)

PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 18:50

Find a smaller displacement crate Hemi and bore that out, or get a blower for it!

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 18:52

Powerstroke swap!!!

DailyTurismo > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 18:53

A healthy dose of estrogen and a botox cocktail always gets a cougar going...wait...what are we talking about?

Mercury...Cougar. Right. Keep the 302, they are light and can make plenty more power than the crap they put out in the 80s. Throw together a set of al heads, cams, headers, intake and 350 hp. http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/…

If that isn't enough oomph, stick on a puffer for 400-450 and you'll be happy.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 18:54

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/component/cont…

lone_liberal > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:07

351 or build a decent 302. It's the easiest, cheapest and it will make as much power you can afford to have it make. A lot more than a stock 80s 302.

camaroboy68ss > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:09

heads,cam,intake carb. Headers if you don't already have then. Get a good cam and at least an aluminum intake and a good sized carb. Got to have good air flow to get power.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:10

Boss 302 is more high strung for racing, not torquier.

I wouldn't put a GM or Mopar engine under a Ford/Mercury.

A 427 is a racing block, and BIG $$$$$$

A 428 Cobra Jet or Super Cobra Jet might be an option, but still not overly cheap, and being a big-block... will be a bit heavy, in an already front-heavy classic car. (and that is assuming the suspension, brakes, drivetrain, fuel system, and structural integrity are already up to the task of handling more power and more weight..)

It depends on what block you use, if you go with a built 351 Windsor. A Motorsport modern block will do more than an original vintage block. Some say no more than .030 over-bore for a vintage block, due to the metallurgy. To get 408 CI, it would likely need to be stroked, as well, which puts more stress on the crank, rods, and short-skirt pistons which are more likely to 'slap'

And tuning for peak horsepower numbers above 5200RPM will likely diminish torque, which is the seat-of-the-pants feel. Plus gearing can have a big effect, too. 2.xx:1 or low 3.xx:1 ratios are good for cruising, but high 3s or 4:10:1 rear final drive will spice up the throttle response out to the tires, without even touching the engine, aside from requiring more revs... putting the engine higher into it's power band at any given speed, but limiting top speed at redline in top gear, depending on the transmission used.

A Supercharger and well chosen cylinder heads, with properly matched valve sizes, cam profile, and intake runner length specification for that, and using port fuel injection would probably do more than making the block vulnerable by siamese-bored cylinders, and over-stroked rotating assembly. Technology goes a long way for power efficiency, while keeping the block within dimension and metallurgical limits... keeping it from eating itself under a heavy-foot.

Otherwise, there is always modular-motor conversions for OHC upgrades... all the way up to modern Coyote 5.0 DOHC 4-valve with more than 400 stock horsepower.

LeadfootYT > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:12

Depends what level of driving you want to do with it. The modified 302 route that people are suggesting is an idea that originates in the drag racing world, where there exists ample time to fine-tune and assess a motor before each run. That said, there's probably a balance in there somewhere. I'm curious what you decide to go with in any case.

claramag, Mustaco Master > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:15

Ditch the cat, install a Coyote

I hoon, therefore I am > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:16

Kinja'd!!!

On a serious note, I was contemplating an LS in my '67 Mustang. Would paint it Ford Blue, and get a set of coil covers to do the same to. Would've loved a Mod or Coy', but the added work to shoehorn those damn cammers is just too much.

Milky > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:19

Fuck, I like your car. A Cougar likes yours is how I would go the muscle car route.

Ohh, uhh I have nothing of importance to say, good luck with that engine shit.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:21

I had a slightly newer Cougar with a 351 Cleveland as my first car. It was lightly modified (carb, exhausts) and had great torque and power—never had any complaints there.

Though a more modern Ford powerplant, like a Coyote, is awfully intriguing too.

Either way, nice ride!

E92M3 > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:22

God your car is beautiful.

RoadHead -- Armand > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
08/11/2014 at 19:23

This. I like this. I've already put in a new cam, carb, and manifold. This is reasonably priced to and I love Kaase's work

RoadHead -- Armand > I hoon, therefore I am
08/11/2014 at 19:30

My only concern with an LS is that....I don't know. I'm not sure how it would sound compared to the old snarly carbureted goodness

GhostZ > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:31

You want torque without reducing the revrange, and without costing tons of money? There's 3 ways to do this:

1. Go with a 351, but with a solid roller cam and tight valve springs, and high quality internals. This should let you keep the same RPM range without reducing overall power.

2. Forced induction. As simple as it can be.

My suggestion? Just go nuts with higher RPM power and start stripping weight.

RoadHead -- Armand > LeadfootYT
08/11/2014 at 19:32

It looks like I'm just gonna build up the 302 for now. New heads, and maybe a supercharger in the future. I'm also planning a ghetto hybrid conversion very soon, which I'll do a full documentation of here on Oppo

Squid > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:32

Stay with the 302 and put a procharger on it. The 302 is a good motor and there are heaps of go fast goodies out there for it. You can make as much power as you can afford and if you are talking LS swap money you can milk quite a bit of power out of that motor.

Think of how much you want to spend on the car and then figure that you can go the F/I route and make heaps of power and heaps of torque for less money than buying an LS and assorted goodies plus getting it shoehorned into the engine bay.

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:32

Garrett Turbochargers?

RoadHead -- Armand > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:34

The cougar is my daily driver. So yeah, I would be driving it quite a bit.

LeadfootYT > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:35

That's awesome. Where are you located?

GhostZ > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:38

I'd go with a turbocharger before I'd do a supercharger if you want low-end torque. While a supercharger will increase the torque, it usually is tied to the airflow of the power curve before applied, which means you'll just be augmenting the whole curve, not changing it's shape.

Whereas a turbo can have the housing size and spool-up peak RPM to be chosen for a specific RPM range where it works most efficiently, letting you actually change the shape of the RPM curve.

Another thing you could do is adjust the rear end gearing. That would be a super-cheap way of producing more torque at the wheels, at the expensive of economy and top speed acceleration.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/11/2014 at 19:40

I wouldn't put a GM or Mopar engine under a Ford/Mercury.

Neither would I. That's why I'm putting a BMW* in a Ford/Mercury

*A BMW, in that BMW owned Rover at the time**

**Which was later owned by Ford, who produced another version of the engine***

***Which is actually a Buick****

****Which makes it sort of a GM, okay, fine.

GhostZ > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:43

You want this:

http://www.carbdford.com/tech/flowdata.…

Look at your cam and the lift it provides, and if it corresponds to the best flow numbers. The Kasse heads are pretty great, but there's a few caveats:

1. They don't provide really impressive flow until the higher lifts

2. They have relatively small/stock valve sizes, which lend themselves better to higher RPM operation than low-end. Your gains will be reduced if you run them on a cam designed for peak power at the low end, where larger valves would be more worthwhile.

GreenN_Gold > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:45

Cool car! Looks great. Nice color.

GhostZ > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 19:47

To clarify my other post, a turbo would be better than a supercharger only because the 302 is naturally a high-revving V8. If you had a lower revving engine with a longer stroke, the supercharger would be better. It all depends on how much you want to change the shape of the curve.

RoadHead -- Armand > LeadfootYT
08/11/2014 at 19:51

All up and down the West Coast. I'm in Santa Barbara right now, and I'll be in the Bay Area tomorrow. Thursday I leave for Seattle, and then after a week I'll be in Redbluff, after which it's back to Santa Barbara, and then on to San Diego until the winter, when it's off to Arizona, then Colorado.

So yeah, I am "located" in the American West but am hard to pin down for long. Because I do so much driving, I've been looking into increasing economy (barely) by creating a hybrid system. It's more for fun than anything else, really.

RoadHead -- Armand > GhostZ
08/11/2014 at 19:52

Thank you for explaining this to me. I am unfamiliar with forced induction as a whole. All the cars I was raised with growing up were austere German saloons, and now the only cars I buy are old American iron.

RoadHead -- Armand > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 20:03

Fuck it, I'm just gonna do a Hyundai Tau swap. #yolo

Also Robbin Williams died :(

GhostZ > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 20:33

You want "maximum boost" by Corky Bell. That book knows more than I ever could.

Warning: Below is a pdf link, open only if you have a viewer or it will try to download the entire book. You're fine if you're using chrome.

http://www.fusca.net/wp-content/upl…

1337HPMustang > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 20:35

dude I love the rally wheels and color on your car. That thing is a 'beaut. Personally I'd splurge and go 427 seeing as you'll have tons of power and all the money you put into it will stay with resale value (as they tend to do with 427 cars).

StoneCold > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 20:55

Usually cheap and big block don't go together, but 429/460 blocks are usually decent price-wise to build up.

I hoon, therefore I am > RoadHead -- Armand
08/11/2014 at 22:21

Trust me, they can sound mean. I have one mated to a 6-speed in my '71 Nova. And as much as I enjoyed tinkering with the Edelbrock (and later, Holley) that was on the 350 in it previously, I no longer have to worry about tuning a carb. And I have 125+ more hp out of only 15 more cubes, from a factory LS3 top end and giant cam. It's terrifying on street tires.

I get keeping a Ford powerplant underneath, and I would have strongly considered a mod or coy if I had the space in the '67 (I couldn't without major modification to the front suspension). Does the Cougar have more space?

I actually built a 5.0 with GT40P heads mated to an AOD, which was a fun cruiser. You could certainly stroke your 5.0 to a 347, toss some aluminum bits on top of it, and have 425 hp easy, or go the even easier route and stick a Procharger on it. One nice thing about the 5.0 block is the roller cam, vs. flat tappet for a 351. Are you running the Fox serpentine setup, or V-belts?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RoadHead -- Armand
08/12/2014 at 04:35

Would a modern Coyote fit? More power, more economy and less weight than all of the options bar the LS (and that only on the weight front).

I really wouldn't stick an LS in it. The swap is overplayed and boring enough as it is without sticking one in their principle rivals' cars.

I'd also do without a big block, but then again I'm more about good handling with just enough power to make it slightly scary. I don't particularly like monstrous straight-line cars that plow like a farmer in corners.

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > RoadHead -- Armand
08/12/2014 at 08:39

I don't know how to help you but goddamn that bad boy is good lookin.

RoadHead -- Armand > I hoon, therefore I am
08/12/2014 at 12:18

v-belts. also, I do think the cougar is a little larger under the hood. I have put my car next to a 1967 mustang and the cougar is wider and longer, plus the Cougar had more, larger engine options than the mustang. But I don't know for sure.

RoadHead -- Armand > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
08/12/2014 at 12:23

I like cars which statistically lower my life expectancy the moment I step inside. I think a modern Coyote would fit, but I can't really afford an engine of that caliber. Maybe a modular...

Philbert/Phartnagle > RoadHead -- Armand
08/12/2014 at 13:55

Buy a Ford Boss 351W block, stroke and poke it out to 427 cubic inches with good forged bottom end parts ( Dart and some other aftermarket blocks can go to 460 C.I. if you want even more cubes ). If you need even more power, you will already have a good base for turbo or supercharging. If you want good mileage, fuel inject it with a tuneable kit, add a 5 or 6 speed manual trans with OD gears or an auto OD trans and go with some higher gears in the rear.

P.S. You cannot "really" turn a standard 302 block into a Boss 302 engine. Boss 302's have better blocks with forged bottom end components and 4-bolt mains. Also, IMO you would be better off with a set of the newer aluminum heads than the old Cleveland heads in a primarily street driven car, plus they will take a goodly amount of weight off the front end.

P.S.S. My cousin has a 67 Cougar almost identical to that one. :thumbup:

ColonialSaab > RoadHead -- Armand
08/12/2014 at 19:49

Ooh, that is a handsome car. Moar pics please!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RoadHead -- Armand
08/13/2014 at 06:38

Supercharged mod V8? That'd be sweet. Or twin-turbo if you want to do a bit of a mash-up of old-school and new-school :)

Even more than that, how about a twin-turbo smallblock Windsor? Now that would be a mashup I'd like to see :)

RoadHead -- Armand > ColonialSaab
08/15/2014 at 11:43

I just posted more pics, click my name and check out my introducing RoadHead article